The Future of OBD is in Your Hands

"tpw_rules" (tpwrules)
06/17/2015 at 15:30 • Filed to: None

“Good morning!”, your boss says to you as you walk into your job at your favorite car company. “I’ve got an interesting project that it seems car people really want and I think you’re the person for the job.”

“People get tired of having to go to the dealer to get codes read, so we thought for our new model we’d introduce a feature that would tell you what was wrong right on the dashboard!” You’ve thought this would be a pretty neat idea too. Even Grandma should know what to do if her car says “check gas cap” (though she was an engineer). “You’re going to be working on the database of trouble codes and their solutions. How hard can it be?”

Unfortunately, you know how that phrase often goes. Here is no different. From being around previous models and knowing what breaks on them, you can make people cry by reciting a four digit number. Here though, it’s not possible to rely on being able to do that because you’re working on an all-new model with a new engine design, a new transmission design, a new everything (plus everybody would rather forget past mistakes...). The only things you probably have enough information to use are diagnoses common to most cars as a whole.

Your boss interrupts your thoughts. “Now the big wigs aren’t fully sold on the idea, but I told them you can manage. I’m sure you know that I like cars too, and I’ve got a few codes I read and diagnosed over the past year or so. If you can come up with good descriptions for them, I’m sure they’ll be convinced. Next Wednesday is our next meeting. Come up with something great before then!”

As he leaves, he hands you a post-it with the following written on it:

P0420

P0440

P0730

Po740

P0303

Opponauts, will you let your boss down?

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

If you haven’t gathered, I have strong opinions on this technology, but I’m open minded. I want to see what you guys can come up with because I’m probably missing something. Next week or so I’ll pick some good responses and share the stories behind each code. All of them are real and (as far as I know) can be generated by any OBD-II equipped car model (though they may come from optional features that not every car has). Good luck!

DISCUSSION (25)

Mattbob > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 15:40

I don’t understand. Do you dislike, OBD-II, or the error code system, or what? Would you like an explanation of why they are seemingly obscure numbers and letters, or what?

Then Something New > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 15:43

Shoot me an email (bellis@disti.com). I make virtual maintenance trainers for a living as well as software to create 3D graphics for embedded displays. Below are a few examples that run in a web browser.

http://www.disti.com/products/gl-st…

The new Jag XJ infotainment is all our stuff. We’ve thought about doing this in the past but just didn’t have the customer case for it. Honestly, it’s not that hard; you really just need the 3D models and maintenance manuals.

DrJohannVegas > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 15:44

Probably. I usually let my boss down.

BigBlock440 > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 15:48

P0440 - Just ignore it, you won’t notice any difference in driveability.

tpw_rules > Mattbob
06/17/2015 at 15:48

I see lots of commenters who think that everything would Just Be Solved if infotainment systems told you what was wrong with the car. From personal experience, a code doesn’t mean much so I’m not sure how displaying it somewhere would help. It’s about 2% of the total process from broken car to fixed car.

I think one of those $5 bluetooth code readers is a good barrier of entry. If you’re the average person, it doesn’t tempt you to break the car based on some googling and a bad diagnosis. If you’re an enthusiast, it’s just like owning a 10mm socket. It’s part of the job.

Then Something New > Then Something New
06/17/2015 at 15:50

This demo is a little bit more hidden but it is awesome. This is an example of our latest instrument cluster with a full 3D car and custom shader for the scanning effect. Imagine showing that while it pulls the codes!

http://webgldemo.disti.com/5766AD1D35F249…

(BTW these demos take a little long to load while it pulls the data down from AWS but then it all runs locally, even on most Android/iOS phones)

tpw_rules > Then Something New
06/17/2015 at 15:54

Those are cool! I’m seeing a few glitches in Firefox 38.0.5 on OSX 10.9.5 (like the 0 and 1 tiles in the speedo were garbled) but I hope my car isn’t running Firefox. The inquiry I’m trying to make is whether the code can give you much information. Integrating the entire service manual into the car with 3D models would be neat as hell (though I’d want to use it on a bigger screen) but I’m curious how that balances with practicality and not sending people on wild chases for sensors that aren’t actually bad.

Then Something New > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 16:08

Yeah I’m with you on not using Firefox in the vehicle! But that is all OpenGL ES code so that would run natively on an embedded target like a i.MX6, Tegra, RCar... So the pinpointing of the issue would really be up to the OEM, but it would be pretty easy to put in a 3D car that could at least point the user to where an issue was or show a level of severity.

From an end user diagnostic side we did build a virtual maintenance trainer for Nissan called NVTS where they would virtually diagnose and take apart a car. This is used to train master technicians. Of course an embedded target won’t have the same level of graphical horsepower, but we can think of a few ideas to at least give consumers more confidence in their vehicle.

Frank Grimes > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 16:45

OBD codes should include info from mechanics so if code 542 comes up it will list a bunch of repairs and their percentage of successful repairs and what was done.

something like

95% succes from replacing fuel pump

5% success from replacing PCM ground.

etc

tpw_rules > Frank Grimes
06/17/2015 at 16:51

Well would you follow it? What if you’re in the 5% and you had to drop your fuel tank for nothing? I suspect you can’t return a fuel pump once you’ve used it. It must somehow include diagnosis, in my opinion.

Sam > Then Something New
06/17/2015 at 17:15

Wow, it actually runs really smoothly on my Android. So you guys did the new infotainment with the boxes?

Sam > Frank Grimes
06/17/2015 at 17:19

And it could even ask if you wanted the navigation to send you to the nearest highly-rated mechanic, probably pulling ratings from Google.

Frank Grimes > Sam
06/17/2015 at 17:52

that would be neat.

Frank Grimes > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 17:53

thats what the repair manual would be for. also I would replace PCM ground or whatevs before replacing the fuel pump.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 17:59

Except the code means jack for what is actually causing the problem.

Example: LLY Duramaxes can have the injector connectors loosen to the point that they need to be tapped with an icepick to tighten everything back up.

OBDII will say that it was a misfire P0307 / P0302. Which is complete bolshoi, because the injector is fine, and the ignition system is fine. It’s the goddamn GM connector.

tpw_rules > Frank Grimes
06/17/2015 at 18:05

Does the car then come with a repair manual? What about people who aren’t the brightest with automobiles and have their shade tree friend replace the fuel pump because they have no idea what a PCM is? I think that’s more the issue with any sort of system.

The point (I hope) I’m making is that I think the easier the information is to get, the more people will be making poor diagnoses. Cars also don’t come with a socket set with a note that says “go wild”.

tpw_rules > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
06/17/2015 at 18:07

That’s why I’m concerned about this system in the first place. If reading codes can be done by any average car driver, so too will poor maintenance decisions be performed based on them. Presumably if you pay $5 you understand a little more.

Frank Grimes > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 19:17

k bro.

TheOnelectronic > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 19:45

I think the point was that rather than giving you a meaningless code, it actually gave you information, like “#3 cylinder misfire” or thereabouts. Still not sure I see your point.

Also, a CEL can mean anything from “Your gas cap isn’t tight” to “Your engine has run out of oil.”

One of those is probably safe to drive to the dealer the next day. The other really is not. Knowing which one it is could prevent a very expensive engine replacement.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 20:32

But my point is that the system can only report the symptom. And a single symptom can have multiple possible causes.

So it reports that there’s a cylinder 7 misfire. The most likely cause is the injector harness, but if the injector is bad, the exact same symptom will present itself, along with the exact same symptom code P0307.

There is no way to programatically determine what the actual cause of the fault is. The system cannot determine the state of something that it doesn’t have direct knowledge of without a sensor, and how do you know that the sensor is in good condition?

For that matter, how does a system know that the system is in good condition, and if it is not, how are you guaranteed that the system can accurately report this to the end user?

Mattbob > tpw_rules
06/17/2015 at 20:39

Agreed. Also, designing cars is about selling cars for a profit. Adding that feature is not cost effective. It isn’t a selling point, and it would add cost to develop. It won’t happen. Nothing wrong with having to get a cheap code reader or looking up codes.

Jayvincent > TheOnelectronic
06/17/2015 at 21:40

Just speaking from experience, driving around with a phantom CEL (two days on, three days off, repeat...) for the last couple of weeks, it would be nice to have some visibility to the data/codes/information the car already has but can’t/won’t share due to poor human-machine interface (aka “idiot lights”). Especially for cars with infotainment screens and menu services right on the dash...

Jayvincent > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs
06/17/2015 at 21:45

and that’s why the dealer gives you a $1200 estimate. It could be the injector is bad, but it could just be clogged, or it could be a loose connector or a frayed harness... so he changes the whole EFI manifold and cleans your MAF sensor just to be sure you are 100% satisfied with your repair. /s

Then Something New > Sam
06/18/2015 at 09:29

Not the hardware, but JLR uses our GL Studio tool to create the embedded infotainment displays. You’ll see more of it in a few months when the cars hit the road.

http://www.evo.co.uk/jaguar/xj/1614…

Sam > Then Something New
06/18/2015 at 10:32

I actually used it in the first Disco demo we had. It was much, much smoother than the old system. I also tried it out in a 2016 XF, and it was a very consistent experience, which I liked.